Article 4079 of alt.sys.pdp10: Path: nntp1.ba.best.com!news1.best.com!nntprelay.mathworks.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!192.220.250.21!netnews1.nw.verio.net!netnews.nwnet.net!news.u.washington.edu!Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU!mrc From: Mark Crispin Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: Clarification desired re: instructions on KA10 Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 18:24:44 -0700 Organization: Networks & Distributed Computing Lines: 27 Message-ID: References: <35F7E313.167E@zk3.dec.com> <6t9ju3$k6j$1@shell3.ba.best.com> <6t9ova$67t$2@void.agames.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: tomobiki-cho.cac.washington.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Trace: nntp1.u.washington.edu 905477086 13612 (None) 140.142.17.35 X-Complaints-To: help@cac.washington.edu NNTP-Posting-User: clane To: Mike Albaugh In-Reply-To: <6t9ova$67t$2@void.agames.com> Xref: nntp1.ba.best.com alt.sys.pdp10:4079 On 10 Sep 1998, Mike Albaugh wrote: > IIRC, There was still a working PDP-6 in Cory Hall at U.C. > Berkeley when I left in 1972. FWIW. It was the only "-10" I ever > had the privilege of using. Alas, that PDP-6 was scrapped. I have a registers board from that machine. Stanford's PDP-6 was not retired until c.1980 when SAIL moved from the DC Power Building to Margaret Jacks Hall, breaking up the world's only triple processor KL/KA/PDP-6 system. The KL and KA moved, the PDP-6 stayed. The DC Power Building was taken over by the Computer Music folks, who were also the last users of the PDP-6. The PDP-6 ran a stripped down version of the monitor called "Mule" and was used to operate the various music synthesizers. I don't know if the PDP-6 was used after the KL/KA moved; the Computer Music people used a Foonly (PDP-10 clone) which ran the same OS as SAIL. The PDP-6 was at DECUS for the 20th anniversary of 36 bits in 1984, and subsequently was donated to the Computer Museum. A big mistake. -- Mark -- * RCW 19.149 notice: This email address is located in Washington State. * * Unsolicited commercial email may be billed $500 per message. * Science does not emerge from voting, party politics, or public debate. Article 4074 of alt.sys.pdp10: Path: nntp1.ba.best.com!news1.best.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!192.220.250.21!netnews1.nw.verio.net!netnews.nwnet.net!news.u.washington.edu!Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU!mrc From: Mark Crispin Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: Clarification desired re: instructions on KA10 Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 15:32:17 -0700 Organization: Networks & Distributed Computing Lines: 44 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: tomobiki-cho.cac.washington.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Trace: nntp1.u.washington.edu 905466739 35230 (None) 140.142.17.39 X-Complaints-To: help@cac.washington.edu NNTP-Posting-User: bjj To: Megan Gentry In-Reply-To: <35F7E313.167E@zk3.dec.com> Xref: nntp1.ba.best.com alt.sys.pdp10:4074 On Thu, 10 Sep 1998, Megan Gentry wrote: > Perenial question - Can anyone explain the differences between the > pdp-6 and the KA10? Normally I don't post to alt.* groups, but in this case I'll make an exception. This is probably only of academic interest, since I believe that the Computer Museum destroyed the last working PDP-6 in the world which was donated to them 14 years ago. Unfortunately, I do not have any PDP-6 prints; I do have several PDP-6 manuals and the diagnostic paper tape for the CONS instruction which was on SAIL's PDP-6 (see above re "last working PDP-6 in the world"). I thought that I had a comparison chart that covered the PDP-6, but I don't, so here's what I came up with in a quick compare of the "Programmed Data Processor-6 Handbook" (DEC manual F-65 dated 8/64) with the "PDP-10 System Reference Manual." I concentrated on user program differences with the KD-10; it would take a lot longer to work out all the exec program differences. The PDP-6 did not have UFA, DFN, JFFO. JFCL 1, tests PC Change on the PDP-6, Floating Overflow on the PDP-10. AFAIK, this was the only way to skip or jump on the PDP-6 without setting PC Change! The PDP-6 did not have high segments or User I/O Mode. All UUOs are MUUOs on the PDP-6. All unassigned instructions are no-ops on the PDP-6. The PDP-6 was, of course, much flakier than the KA10. The PDP-10 was in every way a superior machine, even though it was not significantly faster than the PDP-6. -- Mark -- * RCW 19.149 notice: This email address is located in Washington State. * * Unsolicited commercial email may be billed $500 per message. * Science does not emerge from voting, party politics, or public debate. Article 4083 of alt.sys.pdp10: Path: nntp1.ba.best.com!not-for-mail From: inwap@best.com (Smith and O'Halloran) Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: Clarification desired re: instructions on KA10 Date: 11 Sep 1998 09:35:05 -0700 Organization: Chez INWAP (people, computers, cats) Lines: 24 Message-ID: <6tbjfp$kmb$1@shell3.ba.best.com> References: <35F7E313.167E@zk3.dec.com> <6t9ju3$k6j$1@shell3.ba.best.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: shell3.ba.best.com X-Trace: 905531706 23515 inwap 206.184.139.132 Xref: nntp1.ba.best.com alt.sys.pdp10:4083 In article , Megan wrote: >inwap@best.com (Smith and O'Halloran) writes: >> PDP-6 KA10 >>PC flag bit 12 PC changed Floating Overflow > >So, for the pdp-6, when is it set? When is it cleared? Processor Reference Manual AA-H391A-TK (July 1980) page 2-112: 2.15 Programming Examples, Processor Identification. The instruction repertoires of all PDP-10 processors and the 166 processor used in the PDP-6 are very similar, and most programs require no changes to run on any of them. Because of minor differences and the fact that some instructions are not availabel on the eariler machines, a progrma that is to be compatible with all should have some way of distinguishing which machine it is running on. This simple test suffices. JFCL 17,.+1 ;Clear all four flags JRST .+1 ;Change PC JFCL 1,PDP6 ;PDP-6 has PC Change flag -- INWAP.COM is Joe and Sally Smith, John and Chris O'Halloran and our cats See http://www.inwap.com/ for PDP-10, "ReBoot", "Shadow Raiders"/"War Planets" Article 4086 of alt.sys.pdp10: Path: nntp1.ba.best.com!news1.best.com!nntprelay.mathworks.com!news.eecs.umich.edu!news.bu.edu!csa!budd From: budd@csa.bu.edu (Phil Budne) Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: Clarification desired re: instructions on KA10 Followup-To: alt.sys.pdp10 Date: 11 Sep 1998 19:40:42 GMT Organization: Computer Science Department, Boston University, Boston, MA, USA Lines: 245 Message-ID: <6tbubq$kef$1@news1.bu.edu> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: csa.bu.edu Xref: nntp1.ba.best.com alt.sys.pdp10:4086 In article , Mark Crispin wrote: >Unfortunately, I do not have any PDP-6 prints See http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/tk/pdp6/pdp6.html (http://www.inwap.com/pdp10/pdp6/pdp6.html) >I thought that I had a comparison chart that covered the PDP-6 Here is information from Appendix E of HARDWARE REFERENCE MANUAL DEC-10-XSRNA-A-D (Feb 1975) which covers the PDP-6 the KA10 and the KI10. I'm leaving out the KI and any area where the '6 and the KA are the same, and summarizing some text; Address Break PDP-6 No. KA10 Switch and flag Address stop PDP-6 switches compared with virtual addresses (unreloacted) KA10 switches compared with physical addresses (relocated) Byte pointer incrementing PDP-6 Address overflow carries into index field, and EA calc from the pointer uses the new index register KA10 Address overflow carries, but ILDB or IDPB use original index register, unless an interrupt occurs between the two parts of the the instruction, in which case the updated index register is used. Carry flags PDP-6 Subtractiuon done in 3 steps: complement minuend, add, complement sum. The resulting effect on the Carry flags is the opposite of that listed of SUB, SOJ and SOS KA10 Subtraction done directly Clock PDP-6 Progrm must diable Clock interrupts when opertator is using single instruction mode KA10 The flags is disabled when single isntruction mode is on Console programming PDP-6 DATAI APR, KA10 DATAI APR, and DATAO PI, to load MI First Part Done PDP-6 Set only by interrupt between parts of an IDPB or ILDB, and cleared only when the PC word is saved by an interrupt instruction or an instruction executed by a UUO. (Flag is often reffered to as Byte Increment Supression) KA10 Set same as PDP-6, but cleared whenever PC word is saved. Floating Overflow PDP-6 No. KA10 Yes - in PC and processor conditions. FP Instructions PDP-6 FSC plus four standard operations, with and without rounding, in basic, Long, Memory and Both modes. KA10 PDP-6 complement, except Immediate replaces Long with routing, plus UFA and DFN to facilitate double precision. FP Immediate mode PDP-6 No. KA10 Yes - operand E,0, but only with rounding (FADRI, FSBRI, FMPRI, FDVRI) FP Long mode FADL, FSBL, FMPL PDP-6 In low order word, fraction begins in bit 1 (no exponent) and sign is not forced to 0. KA10 Low order word has fraction and expoenet in standard software format. FP Long mode With rounding PDP-6 Stores meaningless low order word or remainder KA10 Replaced by immediate mode. FP Long mode: FDVL PDP-6 Remainder is incorrect and lacks exponent KA10 Correct remainder stored in std. FP format, but not normalized FP Normalization PDP-6 In add subtract and multiply if high order word of double length result is (positive) zero, no normalization takes place. In FSC h/w does not normalize result. KA10 Result always normalized (except UFA and DFN) FP Rounding PDP-6 If low order part is exactly 1/2 LSB in a negative number, rounding is toward zero KA10 A low order part of exactly 1/2 LSB is rounded away from zero Floating Underflow PDP-6 No. KA10 Yes - in PC word and processor conditions HALT PDP-6 Cannot be performed in user mode. KA10 Can be performed in user mode only if User In-out set. IDIV PDP-6 Overflow if dividend -2^35 KA10 Dividend -2^35 OK except No Divide if divisor +/-1. Interrupt locations PDP-6 Executive (physical) locations 42-57 KA10 Executive (physical) locations 42-57 or 142-157 if offset Interrupt instructions PDP-6 Must use JSR to enter interrupt routine. KA10 Can use JSR, JSP, JSA, PUSHJ or JRST to enter interrupt routine Interruipt points PDP-6 Before instruction fetch and each address word fetch KA10 After each instruction fetch and each address word fetch CONI PI, PDP-6 bits 21-27 not used KA10 bits 21-27 show interrupts in progress JEN PDP-6 Cannot be performed in user mode. KA10 Can be performed in user mode if User In-out set. JFCL bit 12 (JFCL 1,) PDP-6 PC Chhange KA10 Floating Overflow JFFO PDP-6 No. KA10 Yes. JRSTF (JRST 2,) PDP-6 When used with indexing (no indirect) restores flags correctly only if previous instruction leaves left half of AR clear. KA10 No problem. Memory management PDP-6 One each, protection and relocation registers. KA10 Two each, protection and relocation registers. Memory Protection Interrupt PDP-6 After an illegal user reference, the interrupt occurs before the next instruction fetch KA10 After an illegal user reference, the processor executes a zero instruction (UUO), which is trapped in executive location 40. The interrupt occurs after the instruction in executive location 41 is fetched. Memory references PDP-6 memory references are made in SETZ, SETO, SETA annd SETCA KA10 unnecessary references of the PDP-6 are not made. No Divide PDP-6 No. KA10 Yes - In PC word. Overflow PDP-6 Overflow (arithmetic) and Pushdown Overflow flags, which cause interrupts. Overflow conditions set flags in all circumstances. KA10 PDP-6 plus Floating Overflow, Floating Underfloa and No Divide flags. PC Change PDP-6 Yes. KA10 No. PC Word PDP-6 0 Overflow 3 PC Change KA10 0 Overflow 3 Floating Overflow 11 Floating Underflow 12 No Divide Processior conditions: CONO APR, PDP-6 27 Disable PC Change Interrupt 28 Enable PC Change Interrupt 29 Clear PC Change KA10 21 Clear Address Break 27 Clear Floating Overflow Interrupt 28 Enable Floating Overflow Interrupt 29 Clear Floating Overflow Processior conditions: CONI APR, PDP-6 28 PC Change Interrupt Enabled 29 PC Change KA10 28 Floating Overflow Interrupt Enabled 29 Floating Overflow 30 Trap Offset Parity Error PDP-6 No. KA10 Read by CONI PI, POP AC,AC PDP-6 AC receives decremented pointer KA10 AC receives word taken from stack and pointer is lost Power Failure PDP-6 No. KA10 Read by CONI PI, Program management PDP-6 User can necver give HALT or JEN can use IO only if User In-out set Illegal instruction executes as UUO KA10 IO, HALT and JEN illegal unless User In-out set, in which case all are legal. Illgeal instruction executes as MUUO. Read-in PDP-6 No hardware read in; key allows access to readin area (first 16 core locations) for bootstrap. KA10 Yes. Ends by executing last word in the block as instruction Trap Offset PDP-6 No. KA10 Turning off MA TRP OFFSET switch sets flag (a proc cond) Unssigned codes PDP-6 100-131, 243, 247, 257. On most machines these execute like UUOs, but use executive locations 60-61; on some machines the execute as no-ops (there is no standard) [!!!] KA10 247 and 257 are not regarded as unassigned and execute as noops unless implemented by special hardware. Unimplemented operations PDP-6 If FP and byte instructions are not implemented in h/w codes 132-177 act like unassigned codes. User In-out PDP-6 Allows IO instructions to be performed in user mode. KA10 Allows IO instructions, HALT and JEN to be performed in user mode. UUO PDP-6 All UUOs 000-077 use executive locations 40-41 KA10 LUUOs 001-037 use user locations 40-41 in user mode executive locations 40-41 in executive mode. MUUOs and 040-077 use executive locations 40-41 (Trap offset changes executive locations 40-41 to 140-141) Article 4088 of alt.sys.pdp10: Path: nntp1.ba.best.com!news1.best.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!news.u.washington.edu!Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU!mrc From: Mark Crispin Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: Clarification desired re: instructions on KA10 Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 12:59:17 -0700 Organization: Networks & Distributed Computing Lines: 28 Message-ID: References: <35F7E313.167E@zk3.dec.com> <6t9ju3$k6j$1@shell3.ba.best.com> <6tbb4q$g5j$1@hirame.wwa.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: tomobiki-cho.cac.washington.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Trace: nntp1.u.washington.edu 905543961 26756 (None) 140.142.17.37 X-Complaints-To: help@cac.washington.edu NNTP-Posting-User: u812 In-Reply-To: <6tbb4q$g5j$1@hirame.wwa.com> Xref: nntp1.ba.best.com alt.sys.pdp10:4088 On 11 Sep 1998, John Everett wrote: > Lo-seg? What's a lo-seg? On the -6 there was no such concept. Core images > were only a single segment (and saved as .sav files). ^^^ DMP files. All words from JOBCDP (location 75) to the location pointed to by JOBFF. If DDT is loaded, DDT's symbol table was also dumped. [Verified from the "PDP-6 Multiprogramming System Manual" dated 4/66] Unlike SAV files, a DMP file was a straight binary dump that could be loaded with a single IOWD. I am pretty sure that the first PDP-10 monitors also used DMP files, and that SAV files came in somewhere in late 3 series or 4 series. WAITS, SAIL's OS, used DMP files until it was retired in 1990; it's last common ancestor was TOPS-10 was 3.54. I was a system programmer on WAITS from 1977-1979 (and occasionally after that; my main responsibility after 1979 was the Score DEC-20) and remember DMP files quite well. I was told that Berkeley actually had 5.07 running on their PDP-6 before it was retired. -- Mark -- * RCW 19.149 notice: This email address is located in Washington State. * * Unsolicited commercial email may be billed $500 per message. * Science does not emerge from voting, party politics, or public debate. Article 4087 of alt.sys.pdp10: Path: nntp1.ba.best.com!news1.best.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.eecs.umich.edu!news.bu.edu!csa!budd From: budd@csa.bu.edu (Phil Budne) Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: Clarification desired re: instructions on KA10 Followup-To: alt.sys.pdp10 Date: 11 Sep 1998 19:49:27 GMT Organization: Computer Science Department, Boston University, Boston, MA, USA Lines: 10 Message-ID: <6tbus7$l0k$1@news1.bu.edu> References: <35F7E313.167E@zk3.dec.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: csa.bu.edu Xref: nntp1.ba.best.com alt.sys.pdp10:4087 In article <35F7E313.167E@zk3.dec.com>, Megan Gentry wrote: >Finally, can someone provide the names/numbers for the >protection and relocation options? One could have a single >set of registers (which relocated low-seg addresses) or two >sets of registers (which relocated low- and hi-seg addresses). My notes say: KT10 KA10 single protection/relocation reg [never sold] KT10A KA10 dual protection/relocation regs Article 4218 of alt.sys.pdp10: Path: news3.best.com!news1.best.com!nntprelay.mathworks.com!newsfeed.cwix.com!207.241.0.194!news.wwa.com!not-for-mail From: jeverett@wwa.DEFEAT.UCE.BOTS.com (John Everett) Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: KL Console Commands Date: 9 Oct 1998 13:56:09 GMT Organization: Everett Associates Lines: 16 Message-ID: <6vl4lp$k3v$1@hirame.wwa.com> References: <6vdd7g$ohs$1@nntpd.lk <6vjjvc$4qm$1@nntpd.lkg.dec.com> <361d61a8.0@news.wizvax.net> <361d6c9e.13147729@news.clark.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: poolf5-007.wwa.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.99.8 (x86 32bit) Xref: news3.best.com alt.sys.pdp10:4218 In article <361d6c9e.13147729@news.clark.net>, gagner@clark.net says... > >The PDP-6 sported wonderful positive action microswitches that gave a >satisfying click when you switched them. Coupled with the brushed >aluminum panel, you felt like you were really doing science when you >used the machine. Dr. Who would have been proud to use them. Switches that were shared with the PDP-4 and PDP-5, along with the blue cabinets and brushed aluminum front panels. -- jeverett@wwa.DEFEAT.UCE.BOTS.com (John Everett) http://www.wwa.com/~jeverett ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Things have gotten so bad I feel the need to disguise my email address. And I don't like this explanation because I just hate long signatures. Article 4220 of alt.sys.pdp10: Path: news3.best.com!news1.best.com!nntprelay.mathworks.com!newsfeed.cwix.com!205.139.29.29!news.navisite.net!news From: "Aron K. Insinga" Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: KL Console Commands Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998 15:04:08 -0400 Organization: InfoMation Publishing Corp. Lines: 103 Message-ID: <361E5E28.1DD1C12B@InfoMation.ExciseThis.com> References: <6vdd7g$ohs$1@nntpd.lk <6vjjvc$4qm$1@nntpd.lkg.dec.com> <361d61a8.0@news.wizvax.net> <361d6c9e.13147729@news.clark.net> <6vl4lp$k3v$1@hirame.wwa.com> Reply-To: AInsingaExciseThis@InfoMation.ExciseThis.com NNTP-Posting-Host: wh224.cmgi.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (WinNT; I) Xref: news3.best.com alt.sys.pdp10:4220 John Everett wrote: > In article <361d6c9e.13147729@news.clark.net>, gagner@clark.net says... > > > >The PDP-6 sported wonderful positive action microswitches that gave a > >satisfying click when you switched them. Coupled with the brushed > >aluminum panel, you felt like you were really doing science when you > >used the machine. Dr. Who would have been proud to use them. > > Switches that were shared with the PDP-4 and PDP-5, along with the blue > cabinets and brushed aluminum front panels. Oh, good, a discussion of lights and switches, a subject near and dear to my heart! I don't know about the exact switch types, but the watershed in packaging is the PDP-8. I believe that all of the earlier machines (1,4,5,6,7) had brushed aluminum front panels, and panels at the top of the cabinets, with toggle switches and lights in small cylinders with flat, translucent white tops that that stuck through a hole in the aluminum panel and plugged into a couple of little contacts on a circuit board under the panel. I salvaged a cabinet top panel from a PDP-7 with the I/O-related lights as cheap scrap from American Used Computer (or was it American Abused Computer? :-) in Boston near Kenmore Sq. long ago. The labels were silkscreened onto the aluminum panel. And of course they used System Modules and soldered backplanes and were packaged in relay racks, since the panels of sockets had to be bolted into the panel before the wires were added. The interconnect problems of the PDP-6, the appearance of the Sylvania wirewrap sockets and Gardner-Denver wirewrap machine, and the prospect of building many, cheap computers on an assembly line forced changes. Starting with the PDP-8, DEC machines had slide switches with plastic bats. The lights and switches were on a large circuit board and shone through or stuck through or below the silkscreened sheet of plastic with the labels on it. On the 8, the 2 key switches (one on the right and one on the left, one for power and one for panel lock, I think) were *really* there to hold the sheet of plastic in place. At least some of this was Ken Olsen's idea. In a lecture he said that he hung out a Lechmere (a large department store) studying the appliances to find a cheaper way, to the point where he thought the store staff suspected him of "casing the joint" for a possible robbery. (That might have been the talk where Gordon Bell introduced Ken as a packaging engineer on his staff. :-) And of course they used Flip Chips and the wirewrapped backplanes. Also, this is where, for the smaller machines, the package starts moving from the rack down to a box that fits into the rack, which let the embedded systems market happen. Later they added those white-edged black panels that plug onto the rack to cover up the box. Some of the later 11s (45, 70) might have had real toggle switches under the bats, but the 11/20 had slide switches like the 8s. [Hmm, I guess that screening the plastic panel and molding the plastic bats were what let DEC get into interesting colors for their machines. Reviving a notable feature of the ancestral TX-0?] My recollection is that some machines used stiffer plastic in the bats (8, 11/10, 11/45, 11/70) while others used softer plastic (8/e, 11/20) but I don't know for sure. Maybe someone with can say what the plastics were. Earlier machines used flat-handled bats, while later 11s (45, 70) used triangular bats and the metal bezel(?) around the edge of the front panel was molded at the bottom to stick out in the same shape as the switches. I think that was to protect the switches. Little pins on the sides fit into holes on metal pieces on each side of the "real" switch. Re: pushing vs. pulling somewhere in this thread: The deposit switch was usually upside-down so that you had to flip it up above the neutral position instead of flipping it down, to make it harder to accidently change memory. And it was spring-loaded so it returned to its normal position. Several machines (KA10, PDP-8/, PDP-12, PDP-15 or XVM) had the rocker switches. I was under the impression that the rocker switches were covers over slide switches like the bats, but I don't think I ever saw under one to be sure. The KI10 was a (very nice to look at, anyway) anomoly. I don't know why it used the push-buttons with lights in them. There are a few PDP-11 pictures at but I haven't scanned my 36-bit-family pictures yet. (RealSoonNow...) - Aron Insinga Article 4221 of alt.sys.pdp10: Subject: Re: KL Console Commands From: aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 References: <361E5E28.1DD1C12B@InfoMation.ExciseThis.com> Originator: aek@spies.com NNTP-Posting-Host: goonsquad.spies.com Message-ID: <361e73e0.0@news.spies.com> Date: 9 Oct 1998 13:36:48 -0800 X-Trace: 9 Oct 1998 13:36:48 -0800, goonsquad.spies.com Lines: 24 Path: news3.best.com!news1.best.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.idt.net!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!news.spies.com!spies.com!aek Xref: news3.best.com alt.sys.pdp10:4221 From article <361E5E28.1DD1C12B@InfoMation.ExciseThis.com>, by "Aron K. Insinga" : > John Everett wrote: > > Some of the later 11s (45, 70) might have had real toggle switches under the > bats, > but the 11/20 had slide switches like the 8s. > 11/20's used the same slide switches and handles as 8E/M > Several machines (KA10, PDP-8/, PDP-12, PDP-15 or XVM) > had the rocker switches. I was under the impression that the rocker switches > were > covers over slide switches like the bats, but I don't think I ever saw under one > to be > sure. 8I's, 12's and 15's use rocker style slide switches The 11/05,11/10 were the first 11's to use Alco molded switches which were used on all subsequent front panels. These were also the same switches (sans plastic frob) that were used on the Altair and with a frob on IMSAIs. Article 4254 of alt.sys.pdp10: Path: news3.best.com!news1.best.com!nntprelay.mathworks.com!europa.clark.net!206.55.3.15!news.clark.net!not-for-mail From: gagner@clark.net (Philip Gagner) Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: KL Console Commands Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 00:33:23 GMT Organization: TWLG Lines: 18 Message-ID: <36239e18.6108655@news.clark.net> References: <6vdd7g$ohs$1@nntpd.lk <6vjjvc$4qm$1@nntpd.lkg.dec.com> <361d61a8.0@news.wizvax.net> <361d6c9e.13147729@news.clark.net> <6vl4lp$k3v$1@hirame.wwa.com> <361E5E28.1DD1C12B@InfoMation.ExciseThis.com> Reply-To: gagner@clark.net NNTP-Posting-Host: gagner-ppp.clark.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 Xref: news3.best.com alt.sys.pdp10:4254 "Aron K. Insinga" wrote: >John Everett wrote: > >The interconnect problems of the PDP-6, the appearance of the Sylvania >wirewrap sockets and Gardner-Denver wirewrap machine, and the prospect >of building many, cheap computers on an assembly line forced changes. > Standard maintenance on a PDP-6 was running a heavy tool across the back of the boards (the contacts were on the front) to shake them up a bit and seat them in their sockets better. It would solve many many problems. Higher level maintenance was pulling the boards, staring at them for a few seconds, and shoving them back in with lots of wiggling. Harder problems would be solved that way. Article 4257 of alt.sys.pdp10: Path: news3.best.com!news1.best.com!nntprelay.mathworks.com!news.idt.net!netnews.com!mr.net!data.pa.vix.com!news1.digital.com!pa.dec.com!nntpd.lkg.dec.com!not-for-mail From: nospam@zk3.dec.com (Eric Werme - replace nospam with werme) Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: KL Console Commands Date: 13 Oct 1998 01:18:11 GMT Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation Lines: 25 Message-ID: <6vu9oj$g3e$1@nntpd.lkg.dec.com> References: <6vdd7g$ohs$1@nntpd.lk <6vjjvc$4qm$1@nntpd.lkg.dec.com> <361d61a8.0@news.wizvax.net> Reply-To: (Replace nobody with werme) nobody@zk3.dec.com NNTP-Posting-Host: alingo.zk3.dec.com X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.0 CURRENT #60 Xref: news3.best.com alt.sys.pdp10:4257 wilson@dbit.com (John Wilson) writes: >In article <6vjjvc$4qm$1@nntpd.lkg.dec.com>, >Eric Werme - replace nospam with werme <> wrote: >>The KA rocker switches were nicely rounded and had a much better feel >>than most other console switches. >The thing I like about my 8/E's front panel is that the flimsy >little bat switches (really slide switches with bats mounted over them) are >very lightweight so it's easy to change the switches quickly by whacking them >with the side of your finger, but the KA10 rockers and most PDP-11 triangles >look like you'd have to go a lot more slowly since it takes a good solid poke >to flip them. Am I wrong? So "bats" is the word du jour? I think the KA had good old slide switches under the bats. You could clear the whole set by running the back of your fingers along the row of switches, but the bats could rotate or twist and bind a bit so I generally didn't do that. With pressure directly on the bat, they'd be quite happy to flop back and forth. Only the friction in the slide switch held them in position. -- <> Eric (Ric) Werme <> The above is unlikely to contain <> <> ROT-13 addresses: <> official claims or policies of <> <> <> Compaq Computer Corp. <> <> <> http://www.cyberportal.net/werme <> Article 4216 of alt.sys.pdp10: Path: news3.best.com!news1.best.com!nntprelay.mathworks.com!newshub.northeast.verio.net!newsfeed.xcom.net!news.ultranet.com!d16 From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: KL Console Commands Date: Fri, 09 Oct 98 11:06:39 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 31 Message-ID: <6vkv1g$tba$3@ligarius.ultra.net> References: <3615172c.19558816@news.clark.net> <6v2n7j$9at$9@strato.ultra.net> <6v65lv$4pd$1@shell3.ba.best.com> <361a928c.10585390@news.clark.net> <6vdd7g$ohs$1@nntpd.lk <6vjjvc$4qm$1@nntpd.lkg.dec.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: d16.dial-13.mbo.ma.ultra.net X-Complaints-To: abuse@ultra.net X-Ultra-Time: 9 Oct 1998 12:20:00 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Xref: news3.best.com alt.sys.pdp10:4216 In article <6vjjvc$4qm$1@nntpd.lkg.dec.com>, nospam@zk3.dec.com (Eric Werme - replace nospam with werme) wrote: >mbg@world.std.com (Megan) writes: > >>jmfbahciv@aol.com writes: > > >>>Ric, I don't remember _pulling_ anything. Weren't they just >>>the old -11 toggle switches? Geez.. this stuff is so hazed >>>in my brain. I'm glad we're talking about real stuff :-). > >>The 11/40 (/35, /45, /55, /70) had essentially triangular shaped >>switches with a rounded apex sticking out from the panel. It >>had a pivot point located in the center of the base of the triangle. >>In the down position, it was a zero, lift for a one... > >That wasn't my reference. All the momentary contact switches were >spring loaded triangles that you pushed down and would spring back. >Deposit was the one exception - you had to lift it up and it would >spring down. BAH - I don't think you ever had much need to muck >with bits on the various -11s. Rebooting them was mostly setting the >start address in the switches and pushing load address and start. Chuckle. That just shows how much you know :-). I was flipping 8's and 11's way before your time in a group known then as Tape Prep. But I never got to work on that PDP-12 and I never met a PDP-6...nor a 1. /BAH Sigh! - Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. Article 4769 of alt.sys.pdp10: Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,alt.sys.pdp10 Path: news3.best.com!news1.best.com!144.212.100.101.MISMATCH!newsfeed.mathworks.com!newsfeed.enteract.com!ix.netcom.com!netcom!alderson From: alderson@netcom.netcom.com (Richard M. Alderson III) Subject: The Computer Museum did WHAT???? [was Re: YKYBHTLW] In-Reply-To: "Alan H. Martin"'s message of Fri, 23 Apr 1999 01:06:23 -0400 Message-ID: Sender: alderson@netcom.netcom.com Reply-To: alderson@netcom.com Organization: NETCOM On-line services References: <160419991655286030%drissman@acm.org> <7f9rhv$al3$3@ligarius.ultra.net> <3719f951.76285607@news.cadvision.com> <7fgd03$3sv$1@nntpd.lkg.dec.com> <371E7EB5.8123AF06@stoneweb.com> <7fn7kh$g42@nnrp4.farm.idt.net> <371F47A6.B8D17E18@stoneweb.com> <371FFFCF.91181191@MA.UltraNet.Com> Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 18:01:46 GMT Lines: 12 Xref: news3.best.com alt.folklore.computers:128664 alt.sys.pdp10:4769 In article <371FFFCF.91181191@MA.UltraNet.Com> "Alan H. Martin" writes: >When the Computer Museum was selling off PDP-6 boards at the MR cafeteria >garage sale My blood pressure just went through the roof. Please, tell me you were joking! -- Rich Alderson You know the sort of thing that you can find in any dictionary of a strange language, and which so excites the amateur philo- logists, itching to derive one tongue from another that they know better: a word that is nearly the same in form and meaning as the corresponding word in English, or Latin, or Hebrew, or what not. --J. R. R. Tolkien, alderson@netcom.com _The Notion Club Papers_ Article 4770 of alt.sys.pdp10: Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: The Computer Museum did WHAT???? [was Re: YKYBHTLW] References: <160419991655286030%drissman@acm.org> <371F47A6.B8D17E18@stoneweb.com> <371FFFCF.91181191@MA.UltraNet.Com> Organization: D Bit, Troy, NY From: wilson@dbit.com (John Wilson) NNTP-Posting-Host: dbit.dbit.com Message-ID: <3720bb48.0@news.wizvax.net> Date: 23 Apr 1999 14:26:16 -0500 X-Trace: 23 Apr 1999 14:26:16 -0500, dbit.dbit.com Lines: 16 Path: news3.best.com!news1.best.com!newshub.northeast.verio.net!newspeer.monmouth.com!newsfeed.wizvax.net!news.wizvax.net!dbit.com!wilson Xref: news3.best.com alt.folklore.computers:128668 alt.sys.pdp10:4770 In article , Richard M. Alderson III wrote: >In article <371FFFCF.91181191@MA.UltraNet.Com> "Alan H. Martin" > writes: > >>When the Computer Museum was selling off PDP-6 boards at the MR cafeteria >>garage sale > >My blood pressure just went through the roof. Please, tell me you were joking! Is this what happened to the Stanford PDP-6 of which the CM never even acknowledged receipt? (hmm, that was a weird sentence) I gather there were already hard feelings about that, this would make it a lot worse... John Wilson D Bit Article 4787 of alt.sys.pdp10: Path: news3.best.com!news2.best.com!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!news.ems.psu.edu!bonkers!not-for-mail From: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: The Computer Museum did WHAT???? [was Re: YKYBHTLW] Date: 24 Apr 1999 09:32:33 -0500 Organization: none Lines: 16 Message-ID: <7fskm1$5ae@bonkers.taronga.com> References: <160419991655286030%drissman@acm.org> <371F47A6.B8D17E18@stoneweb.com> <371FFFCF.91181191@MA.UltraNet.Com> NNTP-Posting-Host: bonkers.in.taronga.com Xref: news3.best.com alt.folklore.computers:128746 alt.sys.pdp10:4787 In article , Richard M. Alderson III wrote: >In article <371FFFCF.91181191@MA.UltraNet.Com> "Alan H. Martin" > writes: >>When the Computer Museum was selling off PDP-6 boards at the MR cafeteria >>garage sale >My blood pressure just went through the roof. Please, tell me you were joking! They also cut up CDC 6*00s and sold the core memory boards for souvenirs. -- This is The Reverend Peter da Silva's Boring Sig File - there are no references to Wolves, Kibo, Discordianism, or The Church of the Subgenius in this document "Twenty-two points, plus triple-word-score, plus fifty points for using all my letters. Game's over. I'm outta here." -- Melissa ... by Kwyjibo. Article 4771 of alt.sys.pdp10: Path: news3.best.com!news2.best.com!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!news.u.washington.edu!Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU!mrc From: Mark Crispin Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: YKYBHTLW Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 11:22:07 -0700 Organization: Networks & Distributed Computing Lines: 49 Message-ID: References: <160419991655286030%drissman@acm.org> <7f9rhv$al3$3@ligarius.ultra.net> <3719f951.76285607@news.cadvision.com> <7fgd03$3sv$1@nntpd.lkg.dec.com> <371E7EB5.8123AF06@stoneweb.com> <7fn7kh$g42@nnrp4.farm.idt.net> <371F47A6.B8D17E18@stoneweb.com> <371FFFCF.91181191@MA.UltraNet.Com> NNTP-Posting-Host: tomobiki-cho.cac.washington.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Trace: nntp1.u.washington.edu 924891737 7686 (None) 140.142.17.38 X-Complaints-To: help@cac.washington.edu NNTP-Posting-User: scott To: "Alan H. Martin" In-Reply-To: <371FFFCF.91181191@MA.UltraNet.Com> Xref: news3.best.com alt.folklore.computers:128670 alt.sys.pdp10:4771 On Fri, 23 Apr 1999, Alan H. Martin wrote: > When the Computer Museum was selling off PDP-6 boards at the MR cafeteria > garage sale Is that what happened to the Stanford PDP-6 after it was donated to the Computer Museum in 1984? That is disgusting. The Stanford PDP-6 was perhaps the last operational PDP-6 in the world. It was part of the Stanford AI Lab tri-processor KL10/KA10/PDP-6 system until 1980, when the KL and KA moved from the DC Power Building to Margaret Jacks Hall. I was at SAIL from 1977 - 1979 (when I became the system programmer for the Computer Science DEC-20) and have fond memories of seeing the old gal put through her paces. The PDP-6 had its own 64K core memory bank, and was used as a dedicated machine to operate the synthesizers used by the computer music group. The PDP-6 stayed at DC Power, along with the Computer Music group. I don't know if the PDP-6 was ever run with the Foonly, but I think that the musicians attached the synthesizers directly to the Foonly and the PDP-6 was retired after the tri-processor was broken up. I saw it running at the 20th anniversary celebration in 1984, but apparently some register bit was stuck on so they had to program around it in making a little light-blinking program. [Which reminds me, we need a 36th anniversary celebration next year...] Well, I confess, the KA10 had a similar fate. It was used as an XGP (XeroGraphic Printer) controller, and finally toasted itself due to a cooling fan failure. At that point, it was considered unrepairable, retired, and I presently bought it for $500. I took the front panel, light panels, and adder boards for myself; I sent the BBN Pager to the Swedish hackers; and the rest was sold to a scrap metal dealer. The Swedish hackers were a bit distressed at the demolition of an historical KA, but it really was toasted. The last I heard, the BBN Pager had been installed in a KA in Sweden and was running Tenex (many, many years after it was supplied to SAIL with the intent of getting SAIL to run Tenex). I still have that front panel, as well as the front panel to one of the IMSSS KI10s. -- Mark -- * RCW 19.190 notice: This email address is located in Washington State. * * Unsolicited commercial email may be billed $500 per message. * Science does not emerge from voting, party politics, or public debate. Article 4768 of alt.sys.pdp10: Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 Path: news3.best.com!news2.best.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cyclone.news.idirect.com!island.idirect.com!router1.news.adelphia.net!uunet!nyc.uu.net!ffx.uu.net!in3.uu.net!world!weiner From: weiner@world.std.com (Sam Weiner) Subject: Re: PDP-6 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 16:05:22 GMT References: <37200ACD.896E0BCE@watson.ibm.com> Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA Lines: 35 Xref: news3.best.com alt.sys.pdp10:4768 In article <37200ACD.896E0BCE@watson.ibm.com>, David Aubespin wrote: >Hi folks, > >I know this is the PDP-10 ng, but there's no PDP-6 one so... It's all in the family. >I looked all over the internet, and couldn't find a PDP-6 emulator! Amazing. >Therefore, I decided to write my own. >I am now looking for information about this computer. I could find the PDP-10 >instruction set which is a good start, but I'd also like the PDP-6 one. More >important, I need information about its architecture (both official and >non-official since I never had my hands on this computer... I'm "too" young.) >Please help me out. >david Since the instruction set is almost the same, why specifically a PDP-6? If you search old articles via dejanews or somesuch for PDP-6, there have been discussions in the past about which instructions are different. Also, check out the PDP-10 links at www.36bit.org, there may be some information there. The family tree goes PDP-6, KA, KI, KL (KS is off to the side a bit.) A PDP-6 emulator would disable a bunch of instructions and paging plus change some details of a couple of instructions in minor ways. I'm not sure about the last edition but most of the hardware reference manuals for the -10 included a section or notes on the differences between processors. Good luck, Sam Article 4780 of alt.sys.pdp10: Path: news3.best.com!news2.best.com!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!wn4feed!worldnet.att.net!wnmaster1!not-for-mail From: david.razler@worldnet.att.net (David M. Razler) Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: Re: PDP-6 Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 13:13:40 GMT Organization: AT&T WorldNet Services Lines: 11 Message-ID: <3721c32d.86427375@netnews.worldnet.att.net> References: <37200ACD.896E0BCE@watson.ibm.com> Reply-To: david.razler@worldnet.att.net NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.79.220.193 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net 924959652 27453 12.79.220.193 (24 Apr 1999 13:14:12 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@worldnet.att.net NNTP-Posting-Date: 24 Apr 1999 13:14:12 GMT X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 Xref: news3.best.com alt.sys.pdp10:4780 weiner@world.std.com (Sam Weiner) wrote: Not to be too picky but: | The family tree goes PDP-3, PDP-6, KA, KI, KL (KS is off to the side a bit.) it was designed and one was indeed built. dmr David M. Razler david.razler@worldnet.att.net Article 4783 of alt.sys.pdp10: Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: Re: PDP-6 References: <37200ACD.896E0BCE@watson.ibm.com> <3721c32d.86427375@netnews.worldnet.att.net> <7fshb1$ct6$1@ligarius.ultra.net> Organization: D Bit, Troy, NY From: wilson@dbit.com (John Wilson) NNTP-Posting-Host: dbit.dbit.com Message-ID: <3721f08d.0@news.wizvax.net> Date: 24 Apr 1999 12:25:49 -0500 X-Trace: 24 Apr 1999 12:25:49 -0500, dbit.dbit.com Lines: 13 Path: news3.best.com!news2.best.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newspeer.monmouth.com!newsfeed.wizvax.net!news.wizvax.net!dbit.com!wilson Xref: news3.best.com alt.sys.pdp10:4783 In article <7fshb1$ct6$1@ligarius.ultra.net>, wrote: >And to be even a bit picker, the KS was not off >to the side a bit. It was an honest-to-goodness >PDP-10 product that was supported by TOPS-10 and >TOPS-20. Maybe his point was just that the other machines were each bigger and meaner than their predecessors, but the KS was just intended to be less expensive so it was a big step down as far as performance and features went. So it's not part of the stepwise progression that the others were... John Wilson D Bit Article 4795 of alt.sys.pdp10: Path: news3.best.com!news2.best.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!news.u.washington.edu!Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU!mrc From: Mark Crispin Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: Re: PDP-6 Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 16:59:40 -0700 Organization: Networks & Distributed Computing Lines: 14 Message-ID: References: <37200ACD.896E0BCE@watson.ibm.com> <3721c32d.86427375@netnews.worldnet.att.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: tomobiki-cho.cac.washington.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Trace: nntp1.u.washington.edu 924998383 36062 (None) 140.142.17.38 X-Complaints-To: help@cac.washington.edu NNTP-Posting-User: dhack To: "David M. Razler" In-Reply-To: <3721c32d.86427375@netnews.worldnet.att.net> Xref: news3.best.com alt.sys.pdp10:4795 On Sat, 24 Apr 1999, David M. Razler wrote: > The family tree goes PDP-3, PDP-6, KA, KI, KL (KS is off to the side a bit.) > it was designed and one was indeed built. The PDP-3 was a 36-bit machine; however, its architecture had nothing in common with the PDP-6 or the PDP-10. It doesn't belong in the family tree. -- Mark -- * RCW 19.190 notice: This email address is located in Washington State. * * Unsolicited commercial email may be billed $500 per message. * Science does not emerge from voting, party politics, or public debate. Article 4803 of alt.sys.pdp10: Path: news3.best.com!news2.best.com!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!howland.erols.net!news.idt.net!nntp.farm.idt.net!news From: "Chris Ward" Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: PDP-6 Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 09:07:59 -0400 Organization: IDT (Best News In The World) Lines: 43 Message-ID: <7fv4aj$ifd@nnrp4.farm.idt.net> References: <37200ACD.896E0BCE@watson.ibm.com> <3721c32d.86427375@netnews.worldnet.att.net> <372405f0.53799837@netnews.worldnet.att.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp-23.ts-1-bay.hob.idt.net X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3612.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3612.1700 Xref: news3.best.com alt.sys.pdp10:4803 David M. Razler wrote in message <372405f0.53799837@netnews.worldnet.att.net>... >That's like saying that the 18-bit series does *not* go 1,4,7,9,15 because the >hardware architecture of each machine differed radically, and the software >architecture of the 1 differed from its successors. > >The 1 used (from memory) 2-bit instruction definition vs. 3 for the remainder, >the 4 and 9 were "budget models" with the 9 using a horrendous chunk of core >microcode, while the 7 and 15 were, effectively, RISC machines except for the >"horizontal microcode" (using one instruction plus individual bit flags for, >for instance all the rotates), only the 7 and 9 shared semi-compatable logic >(yes, you could plug a PDP-7 DECTape controller into a 9 with a small >kludge,er, adapter, in fact, with a logic level converter you could plug it >into a 15, but I don't want to talk about it) > > dmr > >David M. Razler >david.razler@worldnet.att.net I would be inclined to agree with Mr. Crispin on this one. For instance, if you were to discuss the DG Nova, I would put it in the PDP-5/8/12 family (12 bit) and not the PDP-11 family (16 bit) based on how the machines worked, and not just the word length. For that matter, the Nicolet 1080 (20 bits) seemed to be strongly influenced by the PDP-8, while the 1180 (again 20 bits) seemed more influenced by the Nova. Also as I recall, one PDP-3 was built, but not by DEC. It would be thus be more difficult for it to influence later DEC designs, either in hardware or software. Chris Article 4808 of alt.sys.pdp10: Path: news3.best.com!news2.best.com!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!wn4feed!worldnet.att.net!wnmaster1!not-for-mail From: david.razler@worldnet.att.net (David M. Razler) Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: PDP-6 Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 18:50:23 GMT Organization: AT&T WorldNet Services Lines: 64 Message-ID: <372563e6.77857143@netnews.worldnet.att.net> References: <37200ACD.896E0BCE@watson.ibm.com> <3721c32d.86427375@netnews.worldnet.att.net> <372405f0.53799837@netnews.worldnet.att.net> <7fv4aj$ifd@nnrp4.farm.idt.net> Reply-To: david.razler@worldnet.att.net NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.79.220.103 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net 925066255 15403 12.79.220.103 (25 Apr 1999 18:50:55 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@worldnet.att.net NNTP-Posting-Date: 25 Apr 1999 18:50:55 GMT X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 Xref: news3.best.com alt.sys.pdp10:4808 "Chris Ward" wrote: | | David M. Razler wrote in message | <372405f0.53799837@netnews.worldnet.att.net>... | >That's like saying that the 18-bit series does *not* go 1,4,7,9,15 because | the | >hardware architecture of each machine differed radically, and the software | >architecture of the 1 differed from its successors. | > | >The 1 used (from memory) 2-bit instruction definition vs. 3 for the | remainder, | >the 4 and 9 were "budget models" with the 9 using a horrendous chunk of | core | >microcode, while the 7 and 15 were, effectively, RISC machines except for | the | >"horizontal microcode" (using one instruction plus individual bit flags | for, | >for instance all the rotates), only the 7 and 9 shared semi-compatable | logic | >(yes, you could plug a PDP-7 DECTape controller into a 9 with a small | >kludge,er, adapter, in fact, with a logic level converter you could plug it | >into a 15, but I don't want to talk about it) | > | > dmr | > | >David M. Razler | >david.razler@worldnet.att.net | | I would be inclined to agree with Mr. Crispin on this one. For instance, if | you were to discuss the DG Nova, I would put it in the PDP-5/8/12 family (12 | bit) and not the PDP-11 family (16 bit) based on how the machines worked, | and not just the word length. For that matter, the Nicolet 1080 (20 bits) | seemed to be strongly influenced by the PDP-8, while the 1180 (again 20 | bits) seemed more influenced by the Nova. | | Also as I recall, one PDP-3 was built, but not by DEC. It would be thus be | more difficult for it to influence later DEC designs, either in hardware or | software. | | Chris The hardware design, and I *believe* (pending getting around to filing a Freedom of Information Act request to get the specifics) some of the software was designed by DEC - (previous posts here have connected the company that built it with a CIA shell declassified in the 1970s) It was built out of DEC modules on DEC racks to DEC standards. Last known running in Oregon 25 years ago under MIT's ownership (Bell et al.) It may be running yet. Again, if we are going to fall into "how the machines worked" mentality, then the "PDP-11 family" is not a family at all, because (like the 7-9-15 series) the instruction set was implemented in so many different ways using multiple bus systems, etc. Do Unibus MASSBus and LSIBus systems work the same way? Does the DECMate belong in the PDP-8 family? How about the 8/A? 8/S? Are all CPM/DOS machines in the PDP-8 family because of the structure, command set and nature of the OS?| dmr | David M. Razler david.razler@worldnet.att.net Article 4810 of alt.sys.pdp10: Path: news3.best.com!news1.best.com!144.212.100.101.MISMATCH!newsfeed.mathworks.com!newsswitch.lcs.mit.edu!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!news.u.washington.edu!Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU!mrc From: Mark Crispin Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: PDP-6 Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 13:07:03 -0700 Organization: Networks & Distributed Computing Lines: 31 Message-ID: References: <37200ACD.896E0BCE@watson.ibm.com> <3721c32d.86427375@netnews.worldnet.att.net> <372405f0.53799837@netnews.worldnet.att.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: tomobiki-cho.cac.washington.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Trace: nntp1.u.washington.edu 925070828 20106 (None) 140.142.17.38 X-Complaints-To: help@cac.washington.edu NNTP-Posting-User: btik To: "David M. Razler" In-Reply-To: <372405f0.53799837@netnews.worldnet.att.net> Xref: news3.best.com alt.sys.pdp10:4810 On Sun, 25 Apr 1999, David M. Razler wrote: > | > The family tree goes PDP-3, PDP-6, KA, KI, KL (KS is off to the side a bit.) > | > it was designed and one was indeed built. > | The PDP-3 was a 36-bit machine; however, its architecture had nothing in > | common with the PDP-6 or the PDP-10. It doesn't belong in the family > | tree. > That's like saying that the 18-bit series does *not* go 1,4,7,9,15 because the > hardware architecture of each machine differed radically, and the software > architecture of the 1 differed from its successors. The 18-bit series is usually represented as 4,7,8,15. The 1 did not have a direct successor, except in the sense that the VAX was a "successor" to the PDP-11. However, the PDP-3 was a completely different architecture. It had 36-bits, but otherwise had nothing in common with the 6/10. The IBM 7090 with its CAR/CDR was closer to the PDP-6 than the PDP-3 (however, there's really no similarity between the 7090's instructions and the PDP-6). Or, put another way, the PDP-6 was a completely new design, with Lisp strongly influencing the architecture, and the 7090 was the contemporary Lisp machine. DEC never built a PDP-3; one was built by a DEC customer. Generally, the PDP-3 is excluded from the list of DEC computers (like the PDP-2). -- Mark -- * RCW 19.190 notice: This email address is located in Washington State. * * Unsolicited commercial email may be billed $500 per message. * Science does not emerge from voting, party politics, or public debate. Article 4811 of alt.sys.pdp10: Path: news3.best.com!news1.best.com!newshub.sdsu.edu!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!news.u.washington.edu!Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU!mrc From: Mark Crispin Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: PDP-6 Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 13:18:20 -0700 Organization: Networks & Distributed Computing Lines: 25 Message-ID: References: <37200ACD.896E0BCE@watson.ibm.com> <3721c32d.86427375@netnews.worldnet.att.net> <372405f0.53799837@netnews.worldnet.att.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: tomobiki-cho.cac.washington.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Trace: nntp1.u.washington.edu 925071503 31850 (None) 140.142.17.38 X-Complaints-To: help@cac.washington.edu NNTP-Posting-User: clam To: "David M. Razler" In-Reply-To: <372405f0.53799837@netnews.worldnet.att.net> Xref: news3.best.com alt.sys.pdp10:4811 On Sun, 25 Apr 1999, David M. Razler wrote: > the software > architecture of the 1 differed from its successors. This is also an important point. Most user mode PDP-6 programs will run on every subsequent PDP-10 processor and emulators, including the non-DEC machines (Maxc, Foonly, SC, and XKL). You could make a PDP-6 only program if you tried hard enough (e.g. depending upon the PC change flag), but few people did. SAIL never used the CONS instruction in PDP-6 Lisp (someday, I intend to read in the paper tape for the CONS diagnostic and find out how it worked). Going the other way (running a PDP-10 program on a PDP-6) depends upon not using hisegs, not using new system calls (the last TOPS-10 monitor that ran on a PDP-6 was 5.07), and being careful with floating point. There was no such path with the PDP-1 and the 4/7/9/15. PDP-1 programs died with the PDP-1. -- Mark -- * RCW 19.190 notice: This email address is located in Washington State. * * Unsolicited commercial email may be billed $500 per message. * Science does not emerge from voting, party politics, or public debate. Article 4868 of alt.sys.pdp10: Path: news3.best.com!news2.best.com!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!newsswitch.lcs.mit.edu!news.ultranet.com!not-for-mail From: "Larry S. Samberg" Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: PDP-6 Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 12:40:10 -0400 Organization: Sonoma Systems Lines: 20 Sender: larry@163.182.152.31 Message-ID: <7g7dm7$h17$1@antiochus.ultra.net> References: <37200ACD.896E0BCE@watson.ibm.com> <3721c32d.86427375@netnews.worldnet.att.net> <372405f0.53799837@netnews.worldnet.att.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 163.182.152.31 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Complaints-To: abuse@ultra.net X-Ultra-Time: 28 Apr 1999 16:40:39 GMT X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Xref: news3.best.com alt.sys.pdp10:4868 Did 5.07 really run on a PDP6? I spent some time helping the physics department at Rutgers upgrade to a -10 so they could get off of 4.50 or 4.72 or something like that. (I think I am remembering this right, it was in 1972 :) ---------------------------------------------------- Larry Samberg larry-samberg@sonoma-systems.com Sonoma Systems, Inc. Marlborough, MA 01752 Phone: 508-481-2215 x342 Fax: 508-861-0261 ---------- In article , Mark Crispin wrote: > Going the other way (running a PDP-10 program on a PDP-6) depends upon not > using hisegs, not using new system calls (the last TOPS-10 monitor that > ran on a PDP-6 was 5.07), and being careful with floating point. Article 4878 of alt.sys.pdp10: Path: news3.best.com!news2.best.com!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!news.u.washington.edu!Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU!mrc From: Mark Crispin Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: PDP-6 Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 18:39:25 -0700 Organization: Networks & Distributed Computing Lines: 17 Message-ID: References: <37200ACD.896E0BCE@watson.ibm.com> <3721c32d.86427375@netnews.worldnet.att.net> <372405f0.53799837@netnews.worldnet.att.net> <7g7dm7$h17$1@antiochus.ultra.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: tomobiki-cho.cac.washington.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Trace: nntp1.u.washington.edu 925349967 15516 (None) 140.142.17.35 X-Complaints-To: help@cac.washington.edu NNTP-Posting-User: seung To: "Larry S. Samberg" In-Reply-To: <7g7dm7$h17$1@antiochus.ultra.net> Xref: news3.best.com alt.sys.pdp10:4878 On Wed, 28 Apr 1999, Larry S. Samberg wrote: > Did 5.07 really run on a PDP6? Yes, the University of California at Berkeley PDP-6 ran 5.07 before it was retired. Regrettably, I never got to meet the beast, although I have one of its 6205 boards. I did meet the MIT AI and DM PDP-6s, as well as the SAIL PDP-6. In fact, I remember both the AI and SAIL PDP-6s as operational systems. Neither ran TOPS-10, though. -- Mark -- * RCW 19.190 notice: This email address is located in Washington State. * * Unsolicited commercial email may be billed $500 per message. * Science does not emerge from voting, party politics, or public debate. Article 4899 of alt.sys.pdp10: Path: news3.best.com!nntp1.ba.best.com!not-for-mail From: inwap@best.com (Joe Smith) Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: PDP-6 Date: 30 Apr 1999 10:31:12 -0700 Organization: Chez Inwap Message-ID: <7gcpd0$ein$1@shell3.ba.best.com> References: <37200ACD.896E0BCE@watson.ibm.com> <372405f0.53799837@netnews.worldnet.att.net> <54hfpyv8yj.fsf@flipper.cisco.com> Lines: 30 NNTP-Posting-Host: shell3.ba.best.com X-Trace: nntp1.ba.best.com 925493477 236 inwap@206.184.139.134 Xref: news3.best.com alt.sys.pdp10:4899 In article <54hfpyv8yj.fsf@flipper.cisco.com>, Bill Westfield wrote: > Going the other way (running a PDP-10 program on a PDP-6) depends upon not > using hisegs, not using new system calls (the last TOPS-10 monitor that > ran on a PDP-6 was 5.07), and being careful with floating point. > >Also OWGBPs and such, or were they tops-20 only? Only on TOPS-20 running on a KL with nonzero sections. Not on TOPS-20 on a KS, not on TOPS-10 with microcode prior to what was shipped with 7.04. The comment about not using hisegs automatically eliminates extended addressing. >I was under the impression that the PDP-6 lacked a lot of the byte >pointer stuff (ADJBP, etc), which was pretty common in later software. ADJBP and ADJSP did not exist on the KA or KI either. Rumor has it that someone added some NOR gates to their KI to cause an illegal instruction trap whenever the AC field of an IBP instruction was nonzero so that they could emulate ADJBP in software. Most of the other fancy byte-string manipulation instructions (such as MOVST, CVTBDO and EDIT) were used only by the COBOL compiler. Only MOVSLJ and XBLT were really useful. -Joe -- INWAP.COM is Joe Smith, Sally Smith and our cat Murdock. (The O'Hallorans and their cats moved to http://www.tyedye.org/ Nov-98.) See http://www.inwap.com/ for PDP-10, "ReBoot", "Shadow Raiders"/"War Planets" Article 230 of alt.sys.pdp10: Path: nntp1.ba.best.com!news1.best.com!nntp.primenet.com!nntp.gblx.net!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!uunet!ffx.uu.net!news.kersur.net!not-for-mail From: "Geoffrey G. Rochat" Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: PDP-6 info Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 07:26:43 -0400 Organization: Kersur Technologies Lines: 7 Message-ID: <8lh8oj$799$1@news.kersur.net> References: <8566pv3mnb.fsf@junk.nocrew.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: 02-075.024.popsite.net X-Trace: news.kersur.net 964437587 7465 216.126.160.75 (24 Jul 2000 11:19:47 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@kersur.net NNTP-Posting-Date: 24 Jul 2000 11:19:47 GMT X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Xref: nntp1.ba.best.com alt.sys.pdp10:230 alt.folklore.computers:2127 >Has any PDP-6 documentation survived into these days? In particulary, >I'm interested in which instructions the 166 CPU supported. Take a squint at: www.ai.mit.edu/people/tk/pdp6/pdp6.html (http://www.inwap.com/pdp10/pdp6/pdp6.html) Article 245 of alt.sys.pdp10: Path: nntp1.ba.best.com!news2.best.com!news-hog.berkeley.edu!ucberkeley!newsfeed.stanford.edu!paloalto-snf1.gtei.net!news.gtei.net!forum.apple.com!news.apple.com!haxrus.apple.com!user From: aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: PDP-6 info Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 09:05:26 -0700 Organization: Apple Computer, Inc. Lines: 59 Message-ID: References: <8566pv3mnb.fsf@junk.nocrew.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: haxrus.apple.com X-Trace: news.apple.com 964541113 20524 17.205.21.66 (25 Jul 2000 16:05:13 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@news.apple.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 25 Jul 2000 16:05:13 GMT Xref: nntp1.ba.best.com alt.sys.pdp10:245 alt.folklore.computers:2276 In article <8566pv3mnb.fsf@junk.nocrew.org>, lars brinkhoff wrote: > Has any PDP-6 documentation survived into these days? In particulary, > I'm interested in which instructions the 166 CPU supported. Here's a posting from a few years ago which gives the differences. Too bad Dejanews has developed amnesia. --- From: Mark Crispin Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: Clarification desired re: instructions on KA10 Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 15:32:17 -0700 On Thu, 10 Sep 1998, Megan Gentry wrote: > Perenial question - Can anyone explain the differences between the > pdp-6 and the KA10? Normally I don't post to alt.* groups, but in this case I'll make an exception. This is probably only of academic interest, since I believe that the Computer Museum destroyed the last working PDP-6 in the world which was donated to them 14 years ago. Unfortunately, I do not have any PDP-6 prints; I do have several PDP-6 manuals and the diagnostic paper tape for the CONS instruction which was on SAIL's PDP-6 (see above re "last working PDP-6 in the world"). I thought that I had a comparison chart that covered the PDP-6, but I don't, so here's what I came up with in a quick compare of the "Programmed Data Processor-6 Handbook" (DEC manual F-65 dated 8/64) with the "PDP-10 System Reference Manual." I concentrated on user program differences with the KD-10; it would take a lot longer to work out all the exec program differences. The PDP-6 did not have UFA, DFN, JFFO. JFCL 1, tests PC Change on the PDP-6, Floating Overflow on the PDP-10. AFAIK, this was the only way to skip or jump on the PDP-6 without setting PC Change! The PDP-6 did not have high segments or User I/O Mode. All UUOs are MUUOs on the PDP-6. All unassigned instructions are no-ops on the PDP-6. The PDP-6 was, of course, much flakier than the KA10. The PDP-10 was in every way a superior machine, even though it was not significantly faster than the PDP-6. -- Mark -- -- The eBay Curse: "May you find everything you're looking for.." Article 2329 of alt.sys.pdp10: Path: nntp1.ba.best.com!news1.best.com!news2.best.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-hog.berkeley.edu!ucberkeley!enews.sgi.com!paloalto-snf1.gtei.net!news.gtei.net!forum.apple.com!news.apple.com!haxrus.apple.com!user From: aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: VAX and PDP-10 similarities (was Re: Debugging GALAXY) Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 12:31:24 -0800 Organization: Apple Computer, Inc. Lines: 15 Message-ID: References: <_bDV5.29294$IP1.861987@news1.giganews.com> <90nt27$2590$1@nntp1.ba.best.com> <7ZUX5.43925$%j3.481457@news6.giganews.com> <90qfh3$a4o$5@bob.news.rcn.net> <87g0jwtcuj.fsf@k9.prep.synonet.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: haxrus.apple.com X-Trace: news.apple.com 976480284 10576 17.205.21.66 (10 Dec 2000 20:31:24 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@news.apple.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 10 Dec 2000 20:31:24 GMT Xref: nntp1.ba.best.com alt.sys.pdp10:2329 In article <87g0jwtcuj.fsf@k9.prep.synonet.com>, Paul Repacholi wrote: > Hum, having just looked at the ASCII in F-65, the PDP-6 proc > manual, this is a giggle. > > And before anyone asks, it will be scanned and 'made available' > ASAP. Before you do that check out http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/tk/pdp6/pdp6.html (http://www.inwap.com/pdp10/pdp6/pdp6.html) -- The eBay Curse: "May you find everything you're looking for.." Article 4054 of alt.sys.pdp10: Path: nntp1.ba.best.com!news1.best.com!newsfeed.mathworks.com!portc01.blue.aol.com!news.stealth.net!news-sto.telia.net!news.defero.net!junk.nocrew.org!not-for-mail From: Lars Brinkhoff Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: PDP-6 instruction set Organization: nocrew Lines: 13 Sender: lars@junk.nocrew.org Message-ID: <85k85kir2w.fsf@junk.nocrew.org> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) Emacs/20.7 Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 12:04:50 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 212.73.17.42 X-Complaints-To: abuse@defero.net X-Trace: news.defero.net 985089890 212.73.17.42 (Tue, 20 Mar 2001 13:04:50 MET) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 13:04:50 MET Xref: nntp1.ba.best.com alt.sys.pdp10:4054 Alec McKenzie writes: > I am trying to get hold of a list of the PDP-6 instruction codes. > Can anyone suggest where I might find this? PDP-6 Arithmetic Processor 166 Instruction Manual: http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/tk/pdp6/pdp6-hardware-manual.ps Phil Budne's summary of PDP-6 vs KA10 differences from Appendix E of HARDWARE REFERENCE MANUAL DEC-10-XSRNA-A-D: http://pdp10.nocrew.org/docs/pdp6-ka10.diffs.txt -- http://lars.nocrew.org/ Article 4526 of alt.sys.pdp10: Path: nntp1.ba.best.com!news1.best.com!feed.textport.net!newsfeed.mesh.ad.jp!sjc1.nntp.concentric.net!newsfeed.concentric.net!newsfeed.ozemail.com.au!nsw.nnrp.telstra.net!intgwpad.nntp.telstra.net!news-server.bigpond.net.au!not-for-mail Message-ID: <3ADC0A5C.E875A508@its.uq.edu.aus> From: Wilber Williams X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: PDP-6 instruction set References: <85k85kir2w.fsf@junk.nocrew.org> <3ad63013.2234788@news.m.iinet.net.au> <3AD65D10.1247CCC5@Empire.Net> <9bc53j$nms$4@bob.news.rcn.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 24 Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 09:17:46 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 203.45.132.11 X-Complaints-To: news@bigpond.net.au X-Trace: news-server.bigpond.net.au 987499066 203.45.132.11 (Tue, 17 Apr 2001 19:17:46 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 19:17:46 EST Organization: BigPond Internet Services (http://www.bigpond.net.au) Xref: nntp1.ba.best.com alt.sys.pdp10:4526 Max Burnett, DEC Australia employee #000003, is the man who can tell you of the wherabouts of any DEC-x machine in Australia, whether intact or in pieces. he has a large colelction. I'll see if I can dis up his e-mail address and ask him. Wilber "Zane H. Healy" wrote: > jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: > > Surely there's got to be a PDP-8 on the wet coast. > > I'm guessing this is a typo? There are lots of PDP-8's on both coasts, and > in between. I've got a -8/m. > > If you mean PDP-6, I could have sworn that I've heard of one that still > exists in Australia. But I might be wrong. > > Here is the link to the PDP-6 homepage: > http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/tk/pdp6/pdp6.html (http://www.inwap.com/pdp10/pdp6/pdp6.html) > It looks like the maintenance manual and printset are there in postscript. > > Zane Article 4527 of alt.sys.pdp10: Path: nntp1.ba.best.com!news2.best.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.icl.net!colt.net!news.tele.dk!203.50.2.79!intgwlon.nntp.telstra.net!news-server.bigpond.net.au!not-for-mail Message-ID: <3ADC0D2D.D1EFE73E@its.uq.edu.aus> From: Wilber Williams X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: PDP-6 instruction set References: <85k85kir2w.fsf@junk.nocrew.org> <3ad63013.2234788@news.m.iinet.net.au> <3AD65D10.1247CCC5@Empire.Net> <9bc53j$nms$4@bob.news.rcn.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 24 Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 09:29:47 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 203.45.132.11 X-Complaints-To: news@bigpond.net.au X-Trace: news-server.bigpond.net.au 987499787 203.45.132.11 (Tue, 17 Apr 2001 19:29:47 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 19:29:47 EST Organization: BigPond Internet Services (http://www.bigpond.net.au) Xref: nntp1.ba.best.com alt.sys.pdp10:4527 See http://www.terrigal.net.au/~acms/z0104.htm Damn! I was in Perth a couple of weeks ago - I could have gone tot he museum.... Wilber "Zane H. Healy" wrote: > jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: > > Surely there's got to be a PDP-8 on the wet coast. > > I'm guessing this is a typo? There are lots of PDP-8's on both coasts, and > in between. I've got a -8/m. > > If you mean PDP-6, I could have sworn that I've heard of one that still > exists in Australia. But I might be wrong. > > Here is the link to the PDP-6 homepage: > http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/tk/pdp6/pdp6.html (http://www.inwap.com/pdp10/pdp6/pdp6.html) > It looks like the maintenance manual and printset are there in postscript. > > Zane Article 4543 of alt.sys.pdp10: Sender: prep@k9 Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: PDP-6 instruction set References: <85k85kir2w.fsf@junk.nocrew.org> <3ad63013.2234788@news.m.iinet.net.au> <3AD65D10.1247CCC5@Empire.Net> <9bc53j$nms$4@bob.news.rcn.net> <3ADC0D2D.D1EFE73E@its.uq.edu.aus> From: Paul Repacholi Date: 17 Apr 2001 20:08:04 +0800 Message-ID: <878zkziva3.fsf@prep.synonet.com> Lines: 16 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0807 (Gnus v5.8.7) Emacs/20.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii NNTP-Posting-Host: 157.pe01.dial.iqnet.net.au X-Trace: 17 Apr 2001 21:38:02 +0800, 157.pe01.dial.iqnet.net.au Path: nntp1.ba.best.com!news2.best.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.skycache.com!Cidera!netnews.com!newspeer.cwnet.com!sjc1.nntp.concentric.net!newsfeed.concentric.net!newsfeed.ozemail.com.au!news1.optus.net.au!optus!news.uwa.edu.au!nntp!usenet.per.paradox.net.au!127.0.0.1!nobody Xref: nntp1.ba.best.com alt.sys.pdp10:4543 Wilber Williams writes: > See http://www.terrigal.net.au/~acms/z0104.htm > > Damn! I was in Perth a couple of weeks ago - I could have gone tot he > museum.... Hunt arround over there Wil, several sections of the 6/KA-10 went to UQ when UWA got the KL. Therer may still be bits around that Max has not got his hands on. -- Paul Repacholi 1 Crescent Rd., +61 (08) 9257-1001 Kalamunda. West Australia 6076 Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked. Article 4542 of alt.sys.pdp10: Sender: prep@k9 Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: PDP-6 instruction set References: <85k85kir2w.fsf@junk.nocrew.org> <3ad63013.2234788@news.m.iinet.net.au> <3AD65D10.1247CCC5@Empire.Net> <9bc53j$nms$4@bob.news.rcn.net> From: Paul Repacholi Date: 17 Apr 2001 20:06:09 +0800 Message-ID: <87d7abivda.fsf@prep.synonet.com> Lines: 26 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0807 (Gnus v5.8.7) Emacs/20.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii NNTP-Posting-Host: 157.pe01.dial.iqnet.net.au X-Trace: 17 Apr 2001 21:38:00 +0800, 157.pe01.dial.iqnet.net.au Path: nntp1.ba.best.com!news1.best.com!newsfeed.mathworks.com!enews.sgi.com!news.xtra.co.nz!news.mel.connect.com.au!news1.optus.net.au!optus!news.uwa.edu.au!nntp!usenet.per.paradox.net.au!127.0.0.1!nobody Xref: nntp1.ba.best.com alt.sys.pdp10:4542 "Zane H. Healy" writes: > jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: > > Surely there's got to be a PDP-8 on the wet coast. > > I'm guessing this is a typo? There are lots of PDP-8's on both > coasts, and in between. I've got a -8/m. > If you mean PDP-6, I could have sworn that I've heard of one that > still exists in Australia. But I might be wrong. ONE, the first, PDP-6 came to .au. It was sold to UWA in '64. The 'console' bays are at the Wireless Hill Museum, and the display is in ACMS(WA) store. Two stripped out cab are still at UWA with coms gear in them. I have the nameplate from the 630. The PDP-8 disk controller is at a friends place. Hum, change nameplate to namePLATE. It is 1/4" think machined Al. -- Paul Repacholi 1 Crescent Rd., +61 (08) 9257-1001 Kalamunda. West Australia 6076 Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked. Article 4444 of alt.sys.pdp10: Path: nntp1.ba.best.com!news1.best.com!newsfeed.mathworks.com!panix!news.panix.com!not-for-mail From: Rich Alderson Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: PDP-6 instruction set Date: 13 Apr 2001 15:11:57 -0400 Organization: Systems Administration, XKL LLC, Redmond WA 98052 Lines: 12 Sender: alderson+news@panix3.panix.com Message-ID: References: <85k85kir2w.fsf@junk.nocrew.org> <3ad63013.2234788@news.m.iinet.net.au> <3AD65D10.1247CCC5@Empire.Net> <3AD6D7BC.FD633A8C@Empire.Net> NNTP-Posting-Host: panix3.panix.com X-Trace: news.panix.com 987189117 755 166.84.0.228 (13 Apr 2001 19:11:57 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@panix.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 13 Apr 2001 19:11:57 GMT X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.7 Xref: nntp1.ba.best.com alt.sys.pdp10:4444 John Sauter writes: > Why do you regard this particular PDP-6 as beloved? Because it was the last one in the world? Because SAIL was a cool place? Hey, I got the opportunity to see it in place at the D. C. Power Lab just before it was dismantled for its trip to Anaheim for the 20th Anniversary. -- Rich Alderson alderson+news@panix.com "You get what anybody gets. You get a lifetime." --Death, of the Endless Article 4448 of alt.sys.pdp10: Message-ID: <3AD78C4A.91B65453@Empire.Net> Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 19:31:22 -0400 From: John Sauter Organization: System Eyes Computer Store X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en]C-CCK-MCD NSCPCD47 (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: PDP-6 instruction set References: <85k85kir2w.fsf@junk.nocrew.org> <3ad63013.2234788@news.m.iinet.net.au> <3AD65D10.1247CCC5@Empire.Net> <3AD6D7BC.FD633A8C@Empire.Net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: 198.144.141.148 X-Trace: News.Destek.net 987204677 198.144.141.148 (13 Apr 2001 19:31:17 -0500) Lines: 25 Path: nntp1.ba.best.com!news1.best.com!newsfeed.mathworks.com!news-out.cwix.com!newsfeed.cwix.com!News.Destek.net Xref: nntp1.ba.best.com alt.sys.pdp10:4448 I got to see its beginning; I helped Bob and the rest of the AI crew push it onto the raised floor. I was its system programmer from then until 1969, and worked on 10's and 20's until 1978, when I defected to the VAX. Nevertheless, I don't consider it, or any computer, beloved. Not even the PDP-1, which was the first computer I programmed. When you have seen enough of your friends die, you get defensive and thick-skinned. They're only computers. John Sauter (J_Sauter@Empire.Net) Rich Alderson wrote: > > John Sauter writes: > > > Why do you regard this particular PDP-6 as beloved? > > Because it was the last one in the world? Because SAIL was a cool place? > > Hey, I got the opportunity to see it in place at the D. C. Power Lab just > before it was dismantled for its trip to Anaheim for the 20th Anniversary. > > -- > Rich Alderson alderson+news@panix.com > "You get what anybody gets. You get a lifetime." --Death, of the Endless Article: 15318 of alt.sys.pdp10 Message-ID: <3C4B2A0D.FD103970@Empire.Net> Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 15:35:25 -0500 From: John Sauter Organization: System Eyes Computer Store X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en]C-CCK-MCD NSCPCD47 (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: comp.os.vms,alt.sys.pdp10,comp.sys.dec Subject: Re: VMS missing features (was how to do deamons on VMS) References: <3roT7.207043$tf5.13617499@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com> <9vsfqc$1ng$4@bob.news.rcn.net> <87it9yxohs.fsf@prep.synonet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: hydra141-152.empire.net X-Trace: News.Destek.net 1011558927 hydra141-152.empire.net (20 Jan 2002 15:35:27 -0500) Lines: 16 Path: iad-read.news.verio.net!dfw-artgen.news.verio.net!dfw-peer.news.verio.net!news.verio.net!newsfeed.mathworks.com!newsfeed.cwix.com!News.Destek.net Xref: dfw-artgen.news.verio.net comp.os.vms:124151 alt.sys.pdp10:15318 comp.sys.dec:25002 Paul Repacholi wrote (excerpted): Am I right that there was only one Full Moby (256K) PDP-6? One of the Stanford ones? John Sauter responded: As far as I know, Stanford had only one PDP-6, and it was among the last ones manufactured. Before the arrival of SAIL's KA10 I believe it had only 64 K words. After the KA10 was installed we ran a two-CPU system (KA10 and 166, with the 166 operating as a slave) and I think the memory was increased after that, but a system that includes a KA10 is not, strictly speaking, a PDP-6 any more. John Sauter (J_Sauter@Empire.Net) Article: 15333 of alt.sys.pdp10 Path: iad-read.news.verio.net!dfw-artgen.news.verio.net!dfw-peer.news.verio.net!iad-feed.news.verio.net!phl-feed.news.verio.net!news.verio.net!newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu!panix!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!news.u.washington.edu!140.142.17.34.MISMATCH!news.u.washington.edu!Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU!mrc From: Mark Crispin Newsgroups: comp.os.vms,alt.sys.pdp10,comp.sys.dec Subject: Re: VMS missing features (was how to do deamons on VMS) Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 20:02:10 -0800 Organization: Pandamonium Reigns Lines: 14 Message-ID: References: <3roT7.207043$tf5.13617499@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com> <9vsfqc$1ng$4@bob.news.rcn.net> <87it9yxohs.fsf@prep.synonet.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: tomobiki-cho.cac.washington.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Trace: nntp6.u.washington.edu 1011672136 9710 (None) 140.142.17.40 X-Complaints-To: help@cac.washington.edu NNTP-Posting-User: senf In-Reply-To: <87it9yxohs.fsf@prep.synonet.com> Content-Length: 314159 (believe this at your own risk) Xref: dfw-artgen.news.verio.net comp.os.vms:124351 alt.sys.pdp10:15333 comp.sys.dec:25014 On 20 Jan 2002, Paul Repacholi wrote: > Am I right that there was only one Full Moby (256K) PDP-6? One > of the Stanford ones? The MIT AI Lab PDP-6 had a full moby (Fabritek), an unheard-of thing at the time. I don't know if Stanford's PDP-6 ever did; at the time I was there (starting in 1977) it only had the original 64K memory box. -- Mark -- http://staff.washington.edu/mrc Science does not emerge from voting, party politics, or public debate. Article: 15339 of alt.sys.pdp10 Message-ID: <3C4D4DC1.4444CFBE@Empire.Net> Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 06:32:17 -0500 From: John Sauter Organization: System Eyes Computer Store X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en]C-CCK-MCD NSCPCD47 (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: comp.os.vms,alt.sys.pdp10,comp.sys.dec Subject: Re: VMS missing features (was how to do deamons on VMS) References: <3roT7.207043$tf5.13617499@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com> <9vsfqc$1ng$4@bob.news.rcn.net> <87it9yxohs.fsf@prep.synonet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: hydra140-97.empire.net X-Trace: News.Destek.net 1011699139 hydra140-97.empire.net (22 Jan 2002 06:32:19 -0500) Lines: 14 Path: iad-read.news.verio.net!dfw-artgen.news.verio.net!dfw-peer.news.verio.net!news.verio.net!crtntx1-snh1.gtei.net!washdc3-snh1.gtei.net!news.gtei.net!feeder.qis.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!out.nntp.be!propagator-SanJose!in.nntp.be!news-in-sanjose!News.Destek.net Xref: dfw-artgen.news.verio.net comp.os.vms:124387 alt.sys.pdp10:15339 comp.sys.dec:25022 Mark Crispin wrote: The MIT AI Lab PDP-6 had a full moby (Fabritek), an unheard-of thing at the time. I don't know if Stanford's PDP-6 ever did; at the time I was there (starting in 1977) it only had the original 64K memory box. John Sauter responded: The original memory for the Stanford PDP-6 was four 16K memory boxes, model 163s. An additional box, a model 162, held 16 words of memory, addressed as locations 0-15. John Sauter (J_Sauter@Empire.Net) Article: 15360 of alt.sys.pdp10 Path: iad-read.news.verio.net!dfw-artgen.news.verio.net!dfw-peer.news.verio.net!news.verio.net!newspump.sol.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!news.he.net!news-hog.berkeley.edu!ucberkeley!news.u.washington.edu!140.142.17.34.MISMATCH!news.u.washington.edu!Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU!mrc From: Mark Crispin Newsgroups: comp.os.vms,alt.sys.pdp10,comp.sys.dec Subject: Re: VMS missing features (was how to do deamons on VMS) Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 12:36:47 -0800 Organization: Pandamonium Reigns Lines: 20 Message-ID: References: <3roT7.207043$tf5.13617499@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com> <9vsfqc$1ng$4@bob.news.rcn.net> <87it9yxohs.fsf@prep.synonet.com> <3C4D4DC1.4444CFBE@Empire.Net> NNTP-Posting-Host: tomobiki-cho.cac.washington.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Trace: nntp6.u.washington.edu 1011731809 93198 (None) 140.142.17.37 X-Complaints-To: help@cac.washington.edu NNTP-Posting-User: allos To: John Sauter In-Reply-To: <3C4D4DC1.4444CFBE@Empire.Net> Content-Length: 314159 (believe this at your own risk) Xref: dfw-artgen.news.verio.net comp.os.vms:124518 alt.sys.pdp10:15360 comp.sys.dec:25030 On Tue, 22 Jan 2002, John Sauter wrote: > Mark Crispin wrote: > > The MIT AI Lab PDP-6 had a full moby (Fabritek), an > > unheard-of thing at the time. I don't know if Stanford's > > PDP-6 ever did; at the time I was there (starting in 1977) > > it only had the original 64K memory box. > The original memory for the Stanford PDP-6 was four > 16K memory boxes, model 163s. An additional box, > a model 162, held 16 words of memory, addressed as > locations 0-15. The 162 (a.k.a. fast ACs) was still there in 1977 when I started work at SAIL, but the 163s were gone, replaced with this big honking box that held all of 64K. -- Mark -- http://staff.washington.edu/mrc Science does not emerge from voting, party politics, or public debate. Article: 15437 of alt.sys.pdp10 Path: iad-read.news.verio.net!dfw-artgen.news.verio.net!dfw-peer.news.verio.net!iad-peer.news.verio.net!news.verio.net!fu-berlin.de!newsfeed.iinet.net.au!nntp.waia.asn.au!nnrp.waia.asn.au!!nobody From: Paul Repacholi Newsgroups: comp.os.vms,alt.sys.pdp10,comp.sys.dec Subject: PDP-6 memory Date: 24 Jan 2002 19:30:49 +0800 Organization: iQnet Lines: 18 Sender: prep@k9 Message-ID: <878zaovvdi.fsf_-_@prep.synonet.com> References: <3roT7.207043$tf5.13617499@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com> <9vsfqc$1ng$4@bob.news.rcn.net> <87it9yxohs.fsf@prep.synonet.com> <3C4D4DC1.4444CFBE@Empire.Net> NNTP-Posting-Host: news-01.core.usertools.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: nnrp.waia.asn.au 1011884489 2565 203.12.222.155 (24 Jan 2002 15:01:29 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@nnrp.waia.asn.au NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 15:01:29 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Gnus/5.09 (Gnus v5.9.0) Emacs/21.1 Cache-Post-Path: angelina!unknown@p203.ch01.auto.usertools.net X-Cache: nntpcache 2.3.3 (see http://www.nntpcache.org/) Xref: dfw-artgen.news.verio.net comp.os.vms:124837 alt.sys.pdp10:15437 comp.sys.dec:25050 Mark Crispin writes: > The 162 (a.k.a. fast ACs) was still there in 1977 when I started > work at SAIL, but the 163s were gone, replaced with this big honking > box that held all of 64K. The story I was told, twice, once by a ex Tops developer, and once by someone from DEC oz, was that had expanded the memory on their 6. It was booted, and nothing happened. Dead as a maggo. Then the penny dropped, it was sizing memory, and waiting for the NXM as it counted up :) I thought it was Stanford. -- Paul Repacholi 1 Crescent Rd., +61 (08) 9257-1001 Kalamunda. West Australia 6076 Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked. EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be. Article: 15457 of alt.sys.pdp10 Message-ID: <3C50D1D9.1715428E@Empire.Net> Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 22:32:41 -0500 From: John Sauter Organization: System Eyes Computer Store X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en]C-CCK-MCD NSCPCD47 (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: comp.os.vms,alt.sys.pdp10,comp.sys.dec Subject: Re: PDP-6 memory References: <3roT7.207043$tf5.13617499@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com> <9vsfqc$1ng$4@bob.news.rcn.net> <87it9yxohs.fsf@prep.synonet.com> <3C4D4DC1.4444CFBE@Empire.Net> <878zaovvdi.fsf_-_@prep.synonet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: hydra141-181.empire.net X-Trace: News.Destek.net 1011929564 hydra141-181.empire.net (24 Jan 2002 22:32:44 -0500) Lines: 22 Path: iad-read.news.verio.net!dfw-artgen.news.verio.net!dfw-peer.news.verio.net!news.verio.net!crtntx1-snh1.gtei.net!nycmny1-snh1.gtei.net!news.gtei.net!news-out.visi.com!hermes.visi.com!out.nntp.be!propagator-SanJose!in.nntp.be!news-in-sanjose!News.Destek.net Xref: dfw-artgen.news.verio.net comp.os.vms:124926 alt.sys.pdp10:15457 comp.sys.dec:25062 Paul Repacholi wrote: The story I was told, twice, once by a ex Tops developer, and once by someone from DEC oz, was that had expanded the memory on their 6. It was booted, and nothing happened. Dead as a maggo. Then the penny dropped, it was sizing memory, and waiting for the NXM as it counted up :) I thought it was Stanford. John Sauter retorted: I can't be sure it wasn't Stanford, but Stanford had only one PDP-6, and I was the System Programmer at the AI Lab from 1964 (when we got the system) until 1969, and I don't recall it happening. At the time I left we still had the 166, but the system was no longer a PDP-6, strictly speaking, because it also had a KA10 processor. Perhaps the system was later split up, and 256KW of memory was put on the 166? What's a maggo? John Sauter (J_Sauter@Empire.Net) Article: 15482 of alt.sys.pdp10 From: berdpee@ami.com.au Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: PDP-6 a machine of great beauty! Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 00:32:54 GMT Message-ID: <3c51f801.5245860@news.ami.com.au> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.21/32.243 NNTP-Posting-Host: a0s04.ami.com.au X-Trace: 26 Jan 2002 08:33:11 +0800, a0s04.ami.com.au Lines: 7 Path: iad-read.news.verio.net!dfw-artgen.news.verio.net!dfw-peer.news.verio.net!news.verio.net!crtntx1-snh1.gtei.net!washdc3-snh1.gtei.net!news.gtei.net!feeder.qis.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.media.kyoto-u.ac.jp!news-out.spamkiller.net!propagator-maxim!feed.newsfeeds.com!newsfeed.iinet.net.au!nntp.waia.asn.au!usenet.per.paradox.net.au!a0s04.ami.com.au Xref: dfw-artgen.news.verio.net alt.sys.pdp10:15482 Despite the PC change flag and other understandable mistakes the PDP-6 was still a machine of great beauty. I for one loved it dearly, else why would I have gone at 3am to the UWA computing centre week in and week out for months to work on my print spooler and other changes to the OS. I might add completely UNPAID and unthanked. I did however get some free time for my trouble. aeolus Article: 18654 of alt.sys.pdp10 Path: iad-read.news.verio.net!dfw-artgen!iad-peer.news.verio.net!news.verio.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-out.nuthinbutnews.com!propagator2-sterling!news-in-sterling.newsfeed.com!newsfeed.iinet.net.au!nntp.waia.asn.au!nnrp.waia.asn.au!127.0.0.1!nobody From: Paul Repacholi Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: Access to the chook manuals Date: 04 Jan 2003 05:26:28 +0800 Organization: none Lines: 25 Sender: prep@k9 Message-ID: <87u1gpdiwr.fsf@prep.synonet.com> References: <3e15b27d_2@news.iglou.com> <3E15D000.4070007@planet.nl> <3e15d70b$1_1@news.iglou.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: news-01.core.usertools.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: nnrp.waia.asn.au 1041629345 25750 202.154.80.9 (3 Jan 2003 21:29:05 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@nnrp.waia.asn.au NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 21:29:05 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Gnus/5.09 (Gnus v5.9.0) Emacs/21.2 Cache-Post-Path: heidi.pe!unknown@p212.qv1-01.dial.usertools.net X-Cache: nntpcache 2.3.3 (see http://www.nntpcache.org/) Xref: dfw-artgen alt.sys.pdp10:18654 "Douglas H. Quebbeman" writes: > > Broken yes, but fixable. They got the file extension wrong on all > > the links, so the tif directory has the .tif files but the index > > shows .pdf Likewise the pdf dir has .pdf's but the index shows > > .tif. > The links in the left-hand frame are also broken- obviously a > work-in-progress. yesterday, I was able to google up a cached page > of links from chook, but today, it's gone... The unis are on xmas hols, for a variable time, so I'd not hold my breath at this time of the year. :) It seems to have dropped of the face of the DNS to boot... BTW, they got the pdp-6 memory boxes from UWA as I remember. -- Paul Repacholi 1 Crescent Rd., +61 (08) 9257-1001 Kalamunda. West Australia 6076 comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked. EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be. Article: 18659 of alt.sys.pdp10 Path: iad-read.news.verio.net!dfw-artgen!iad-peer.news.verio.net!news.verio.net!newsfeed.cwix.com!newsfeed.mathworks.com!wn13feed!worldnet.att.net!204.127.198.203!attbi_feed3!attbi_feed4!attbi.com!sccrnsc02.POSTED!not-for-mail Message-ID: <3E16A384.F3102E5E@ev1.net> From: Charles Richmond Reply-To: richmond@ev1.net Organization: Canine Computer Center X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: Access to the chook manuals References: <3e15b27d_2@news.iglou.com> <3E15D000.4070007@planet.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 34 NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.237.69.162 X-Complaints-To: abuse@attbi.com X-Trace: sccrnsc02 1041663904 12.237.69.162 (Sat, 04 Jan 2003 07:05:04 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2003 07:05:04 GMT Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2003 07:05:04 GMT Xref: dfw-artgen alt.sys.pdp10:18659 Jan van Mastbergen wrote: > > Al Kossow wrote: > > From article <3e15b27d_2@news.iglou.com>, by "Douglas H. Quebbeman" : > > > >> http://www.computer.museum.uq.edu.au/pdf/index.html > >> > > > > > > Every actual document link is broken. > > > > Broken yes, but fixable. They got the file extension wrong on all the > links, so the tif directory has the .tif files but the index shows .pdf > Likewise the pdf dir has .pdf's but the index shows .tif. > 1) Go to the page above: 2) Make sure that your location bar is showing on your browser. 3) Click on one of the ".tif" links on this page 4) When the "not found" page comes up, modify what is in the location toolbar by deleting the last ".tif" and replacing it with a ".pdf" 5) Press enter...the Acrobat file will start to download. -- +-------------------------------------------------------------+ | Charles and Francis Richmond | +-------------------------------------------------------------+ Article: 108028 of alt.folklore.computers Newsgroups: comp.os.vms,comp.sys.dec,de.comp.os.vms,alt.folklore.computers Path: iad-read.news.verio.net!dfw-artgen!iad-peer.news.verio.net!news.verio.net!newsfeed.cwix.com!wn14feed!worldnet.att.net!198.6.0.123!uunet!sac.uu.net!ash.uu.net!world!bdc From: bdc@world.std.com (Brian 'Jarai' Chase) Subject: Dinosaurs on the net? [was Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth] X-No-Ahbou: yes Message-ID: Sender: bdc@world.std.com Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 23:06:07 GMT X-Face: "CVLf:[ <3e0f265c.7463269@news.btopenworld.com> <6oseua.f5i.ln@via.reistad.priv.no> X-No-Archive: Yes Organization: HappyNet Bungalow Lines: 17 Xref: dfw-artgen comp.os.vms:167358 comp.sys.dec:28409 de.comp.os.vms:3578 alt.folklore.computers:108028 In article <6oseua.f5i.ln@via.reistad.priv.no>, Morten Reistad wrote: > I am not too well versed in PDP10s predating the KL and Tops20 version 3A; > but I believe the KA10 would run versions of Tops10 that supported telnet. > The KA10 is most certainly a transistor (and diode!) construction. Or if not the KA10, what about DEC's PDP-6 systems? SAIL was originally a PDP-6 when it went online in 1966. Eventually it was upgraded to a more capable processor, but how long did they run with on the PDP-6; was it long enough to have it connected to Arpanet? Were there any other PDP-6 systems around that would've been on the net sometime during the 1970s? -brian. -- --- Brian Chase | bdc@world.std.com | http://world.std.com/~bdc/ ----- Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. -- Pablo Picasso. Article: 108096 of alt.folklore.computers Path: iad-read.news.verio.net!dfw-artgen!iad-peer.news.verio.net!news.verio.net!newsfeed.cwix.com!news1.optus.net.au!optus!news.uwa.edu.au!nntp.waia.asn.au!nnrp.waia.asn.au!127.0.0.1!nobody From: Paul Repacholi Newsgroups: comp.os.vms,comp.sys.dec,de.comp.os.vms,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Dinosaurs on the net? [was Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth] Date: 28 Dec 2002 03:46:00 +0800 Organization: none Lines: 32 Sender: prep@k9 Message-ID: <87ptrndz47.fsf@prep.synonet.com> References: <3E05FE9D.B3A12286@vax6k.openecs.org> <3e0f265c.7463269@news.btopenworld.com> <6oseua.f5i.ln@via.reistad.priv.no> NNTP-Posting-Host: news-01.core.usertools.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: nnrp.waia.asn.au 1041022595 9053 202.154.80.9 (27 Dec 2002 20:56:35 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@nnrp.waia.asn.au NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 20:56:35 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Gnus/5.09 (Gnus v5.9.0) Emacs/21.2 Cache-Post-Path: heidi.pe!unknown@p155.qv1-01.dial.usertools.net X-Cache: nntpcache 2.3.3 (see http://www.nntpcache.org/) Xref: dfw-artgen comp.os.vms:167469 comp.sys.dec:28432 de.comp.os.vms:3591 alt.folklore.computers:108096 bdc@world.std.com (Brian 'Jarai' Chase) writes: > In article <6oseua.f5i.ln@via.reistad.priv.no>, > Morten Reistad wrote: > > I am not too well versed in PDP10s predating the KL and Tops20 > > version 3A; but I believe the KA10 would run versions of Tops10 > > that supported telnet. The KA10 is most certainly a transistor > > (and diode!) construction. > Or if not the KA10, what about DEC's PDP-6 systems? SAIL was > originally a PDP-6 when it went online in 1966. Eventually it was > upgraded to a more capable processor, but how long did they run with > on the PDP-6; was it long enough to have it connected to Arpanet? > Were there any other PDP-6 systems around that would've been on the > net sometime during the 1970s? Possibly. UWA had PDP-6 sn 4, the first one sold. In '72 it was replaced by a Cyber 72... and a few month later, a KA-10 was installed. There was much joy from many! That machine was one of the first to use a packet switched net from UWA to WAIT in 74 (I think...I can never remember if it was 74 or 75) The Arpanet was running to some degree before that, so the SAIL 6 well could have been on it. -- Paul Repacholi 1 Crescent Rd., +61 (08) 9257-1001 Kalamunda. West Australia 6076 comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked. EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.